Can anyone recommend any sources (books, articles, magazines, websites, etc.) that give a detailed description on the process of how Registrars are accredited, as well as other general information such as the number of registrars worldwide, how they train and pick auditors, etc.? Also, I’m looking for general information pertaining to how the Accreditation Bodies (RAB, SCC, etc.) come into power, operate, etc. Any suggestions on where I might find such information?
Thank you in advance.
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Comments
danny 8/12/2005
ISO 17025 certification does not prove anything. ISO 17025 is a standard that if followed assures that the testing lab has a quality system in place. What that company does with their quality system depends on their dedication to quality. If you are really concerned about the proper handling of electronic equipment then you need to do an audit of their processes and determine for yourself.
ukavi 6/20/2005
Any calibration lab that has the ISO certificate and on its right mind would at least prepare instuctions or procedures on "How to handle Measurement Equipment and calibration equipment". I believe this is the real indicator about the difference between the Cal. Lab that really applies the right Quality Management System and the one who just gets the certificate as wall covering. What you can do, in my opinion, is to ask them about their procedures and work instructions about handling the equipment to be calibrated and also about handling calibration equipment. If they can provide you with a written answer (procedure or work instruction) then I guess it is sufficient, because then if you witness their technician doesn't do what is written it is a nonconformance. Other than all that I believe every calibration lab should have a form for customer to fill out which includes the questions about the environmental factors. That is my opiniion anyways...
almetzel 6/14/2005
I can not disagree with your statement as to what the auditor examines, but... the best procedures, backed up by the best equipment, are still no better than the competence and diligence of the people doing the actual work. And, lest anyone believe I am just dumping on the little guy, the best procedures, implemented by the best workers, backed up by the best equipment, are still no better than the commitment of management.
In short, the audit measures how well you talk the talk, but competence is a measure of how well you walk the walk.
carolynj 5/25/2005
As senior management to an accredited calibration lab I agree that the verbage may say it does not mean they are competent, but other sections contradict that. Practically speaking, the assessors look at every one of your procedures and determine if the measurements you are making are equal to or better than the uncertainties you claim on your scope of accreditation. They also look at each and every standard to determine if they are truly traceable to a national standard, such as NIST. Your job as a user of that lab is to look at the scope of accreditation and determine if the uncertainties are good enough for your processes.
rwitte 6/11/2005
I work for a company that requires on site calibration. We have 1000 pieces of high end test equipment to cal. I am responsible for getting bids, investigating the cal vendors and finally choosing (by my self)the vendor based on several factors. Specifically my complaint is that the calibration vendor should train the calibration technician to sit down in front of a piece of test equipment and carry out all measurements to the prescribed calibration level with consideration to all external issues. My experience is that the cal vendors do not specifically train the technician for working in the field. They may be certified to ISO but know nothing of equipment safety or ESD. Cal vendors seem to be unaware that their customers are more familiar with the equipment being calibrated. I have been shown records from some cal vendors on employee training and skills. PMEL training is prefered but once again the tech must observe the care and handeling of the test equipment. Is there a part of the spec (or any spec) that meets this? What does 17025 say about ESD and environment considerations for calibrations conducted on site? Are technicians certified or accredited to ISO 17025 or is the vendor? Is there a certification process for "Total Equipment Calibration Qualification"? (My term)I have seen levels of compentency in handeling equipment and its not allways appropriate. If there were a way of finding out the compency of the technician before he arrives it would be most helpfull. The vendors never bring up the requirments for the on site. We allways have to ask what they need. Why is this...........?
almetzel 5/24/2005
The following is directly from ISO 17025:
Paragraph 1.4 This International Standard is for use by laboratories in developing their management system for quality,
administrative and technical operations. Laboratory customers, regulatory authorities and accreditation bodies
may also use it in confirming or recognizing the competence of laboratories. This International Standard is not
intended to be used as the basis for certification of laboratories.
NOTE 1 The term 'management system' in this International Standard means the quality, administrative and technical
systems that govern the operations of a laboratory.
NOTE 2 Certification of a management system is sometimes also called registration.
sproctor1977 11/7/2007
As mentioned in the first reply, one of the core principles of acreditation to 17025 is competence. I spend 1/2 of the yearly assessment proving the competence of my lab and technicians. Granted, the assessors can only reasonably assess a portion of the scope, but they look for trends that show competency in other calibration within those disciplines.
It's not a bad idea to ask some questions and to even request a visit to witness activities. I'm always open to these within reason. However, standards like 17025 were developed with a side purpose of eliminating the time taken by every customer to personally evaluate ever vendor.
Caveat: Make sure the lab you choose is accredited by a reputable AB that is a signatory of APLAC, ILAC and so on. Not all AB's are equal.